PleaseConvinceMe Podcast 128

Has the Old Testament Been Faithfully Transmitted?

In this podcast, Jim begins a new series examining the reliability of the Bible. Can we trust that the Old Testament we have today is the same Old Testament that Jesus referred to? How was the Old Testament scripture transmitted over time? Does it contain error? Can it be trusted? How do we know that the ancient Jews were studying the same text we study today? Jim examines the transmission and canonization of the Old Testament in this first podcast in our new series.

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PleaseConvinceMe Podcast 128

An Author in Waiting

Brietbart posted a article yesterday that describes the plight of 46 year old Rom Houben who suffered a car accident in 1983 and spent 23 years in a coma. His doctors eventually told his family that he was in a vegetative state. Rom's family never accepted that diagnosis and after five trips to doctors in America (our system still appears to offer more than what is offered in Europe), one doctor finally determined that Rom was actually conscious after examining his PET Scan. Doctors eventually connected computers to Rom's feet to establish communication with him ('yes' or 'no' responses) and then found a way to restore more robust communicative skills. He is presently preparing to write a book; it turns out that he was conscious and listening to every word being said throughout all those years that people thought he was unconscious!

Now, while this story gives us pause and reason to reconsider the consciousness and value of people we often write off as vegetative, that's not my point in bringing the story to your attention. I think it has powerful parallels to the debate about life in the womb. Many pro-choice supporters argue that we ought to be able to terminate a fetus prior to the point in which that fetus attains consciousness (i.e. brainwave activity), but let's consider this argument in light of Rom's story.

There was clearly a point at which Rom was diagnosed as hopelessly vegetative. If we were to poll Americans about what we should do with Rom at this point, many would say that we should disconnect him from life support and let him die. They would argue that he's already dead from a consciousness perspective. But would that same group be so quick to disconnect Rom once the PET Scan revealed that he actually WAS conscious? I bet far fewer would be willing to give up on Rom. Why would they change their minds? Because they would now have hope that Rom might someday return to 'functionality'. Let's go a step further. How would we feel about terminating Rom once we've discovered that he could communicate simply using movement in his feet and could answer 'yes' or 'no' questions? Far fewer would be willing to terminate him. How about when we discover that Rom is completely articulate and has the ability to write a book about everything he experienced in the years since the accident? Now I think we would unanimously agree that terminating Rom would be an act of murder. Why? Because we know that, while he may have been unconscious for a season, Rom is capable of articulate consciousness.

The unborn, pre-conscious baby is no different. Unconscious for a season, this baby will eventually have the capacity to write a book of his or her own. Just as we would never have terminated Rom as he was coming back to us, we ought never terminate a life of someone who has yet to come to us. The baby, like Rom, is an author in waiting...

An Author in Waiting

PleaseConvinceMe Podcast 127

The Truth About the Origin of Thanksgiving

In this podcast, Jim examines the American holiday of Thanksgiving. While Thanksgiving has become a secular holiday for most Americans, its origins are distinctly Christian. Thanksgiving Day was not established to give us an opportunity to thank our government, our forefathers or even our good fortune. It was, and always has been, a day set aside to thank the God of the Bible. Jim also answers listener email related to Oneness Pentecostals and the relationship between God's sovereignty and man's free will.

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PleaseConvinceMe Podcast 127

I Can't Believe in a God Like That

The missionary below is K. P. Yohannan, founder and president of "Gospel for Asia" - for more information about his ministry, visit www.gfa.org.



After I posted "Deut's Other Gods", a friend of mine who is coming out of Mormonism confronted me about one of the Bible verses I'd quoted, in which God instructs Israel to stone-to-death persons who worship the sun, moon, and stars. She said passages like this one are among her reasons to reject the Bible. In her words, "I can't believe in a God like that".

I have to admit that unless you consider it carefully, it sounds very ornery of God to command such a thing. Seriously! Why such extreme measures? Why is God so "jealous"? Why shouldn't people be able to worship whatever (god) they want to?

The first story told by the missionary in the above video clip quickly provides some insight on this topic. The Hindu woman in the story was trying to get something that she badly needed from the 'god' she believed could provide it. She was trying to earn forgiveness, and made her trek to the Ganges River with the best sacrifice she could think of - her own baby boy. This sounds much like the peoples in Deuteronomy who appeased their 'gods' by throwing their children into the fire.

Worship of "other gods", as God has advised all along, does NOT lead to true peace, happiness, and forgiveness, but ofttimes to rash and destructive acts against ourselves and others. A command like the one given in Deuteronomy 17:2-5 would have threatened many people out of considering worship of gods-that-are-not-gods. Others, who were determined to worship these 'gods' and bound to attract followers and/or pass their new religion on to future generations, would have been stopped short. Even in judgment, God demonstrates His compassion! The religions of the world that take so much from (and offer so little to) their people... what if they'd never gotten off the ground?

The God of the Bible, Himself, bore the punishment we deserve. He offered up Himself and suffered as only He could so that we can have forgiveness from the mistakes that haunt us. Among all the 'gods' of all the religions on earth, only He is a loving, compassionate Savior.

Can I not believe in a God like that? No, with all my heart, I must.

I Can't Believe in a God Like That

PleaseConvinceMe Podcast 126

What Does the Evidence Reveal About Mormonism (Part 2)?

In this podcast, Jim finishes his short, two part series examining the evidence related to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. Is the Book of Mormon truly what it claims to be? Is there any internal evidence that can help us determine the truth of the matter? What does the cumulative circumstantial and direct physical evidence conclude about the Book of Mormon and Mormonism in general? Does Christianity suffer in a similar way when examined critically?

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PleaseConvinceMe Podcast 126

A Movie Review

I’m a warm weather, green yard and garden fan, but when the season finishes up and cold weather begins, I tend to take a “switch-gears” break and rest in mind and body for a couple of weeks. This year being no different, I have lately watched too much TV. The good news is that two of the movies provided fodder for an article, and so I’m going to do a little movie review. Beware! This post contains “spoilers”.


The first film in my comparison is “Nights in Rodanthe”. The movie followed what I’d describe as a Hollywood storyline: woman leaves adulterous-but-penitent husband she just can’t forgive, for handsome man in emotional crisis, with whom she survives a hangover and a hurricane, and who ‘truly’ appreciates her after their weeklong time together (during which they share physical intimacy).

The other movie, “The Women”, begins the same way, with a woman and her cheating husband. But instead of getting herself a ‘better’ man, this wife: 1) consults her mother, 2) separates from but does not divorce her husband, 3) acknowledges, confronts, and works to correct her half of the marital problems, and finally, 4) forgives him and begins the reconciliation/healing process.

While I would not characterize the “The Women” as a Christian movie, it did follow the Biblical prescription for a marriage undergoing the crisis of infidelity !

The wife's mother, in the movie, encouraged her to 'hang in there', wait it out, and not divorce. She told her the man's fling was probably not as important to her as his marriage and family, and offered some advice on how to make her husband reconsider what he was doing. She was right! Did you know that the fifth commandment has a built-in blessing? Exodus 20:12 -- “Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee”. Parents (in general) are not only more experienced with life and its various trials, but they come equipped with knowledge of and love for us, and a sincere desire to help. Ideally, they would give us godly guidance. If they cannot, it’s best to also seek godly counsel in the Bible, and from people who are familiar with God’s Word and know to trust Him. (Psalms 1, Proverbs 11:14 are just a few verses on this subject).

The Bible also shares specific wisdom for married people in this situation. In 1st Corinthians 7:10-11, Paul writes: “And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away (divorce) his wife.” Jesus said that Moses was allowed to issue a bill of divorcement in the case adultery because of the “hardness” of people’s hearts, but that a marriage is the joining of two single units into a single unit of two. “What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder”, He said. (Matthew 15:31, 19:3-12; Mark 10:2-12, etc). The woman in the movie did separate for a time, from her husband. But she did not date or look for better options.

One thing the wife in the movie did do during her separation was begin to look for what bad decisions she had made. While it may be easier to let a cheating spouse take the blame, chances are good that the ‘innocent’ spouse was behaving in ways that drove the relationship apart. Nagging, blaming, withholding, neglecting, disrespecting… can all seem like lesser sins, but still sabotage a marriage. Understanding that we are ALL guilty (Romans 3:10-20) is especially helpful when it comes to trying to take responsibility for our shortcomings. A believer in Christ has the benefit of God’s forgiveness and the indwelling Holy Spirit to help shed bad personality traits, and acquire the lacking good ones.

In the end, the wife was able to forgive the husband. Jesus offers forgiveness in order that we can forgive, and He expects us to (Matt 18:21-22, Luke 6:37, 17:4, etc). Obviously, in an infidelity situation, it’s possible to forgive and still not be able to keep the marriage together, like in cases where the cheating spouse will not abandon the extramarital relationship. But forgiveness here remains just as important because it frees the non-cheating spouse from the ill-effects of being overly angry, ignoring his/her own faults, and holding a grudge.

The Bible goes further, to make recommendations for behavior that helps a couple avoid adultery all together. Proverbs 2, 5, 6, 12, 14, 23, 27,31; Romans 7; 1 Corinthians 7; Ephesians 5; Colossians 3; 1 Peter 3, etc. Probably my favorite passage is from 1 Corinthians 13:

“Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails…”(NASB)

My conclusion: “Nights in Rodanthe” is a pretty shallow treatment of love and marriage. Though there were some things I found objectionable about “The Women”, I still enjoyed it because of the deeper-than-expected journey through adultery.

A Movie Review

Salvation Math

True Christianity is not a religion of works, but a working relationship with God. It begins with knowing that you are a sinner and incapable of being good enough for Him, and accepting His free payment for your sin debt...

Salvation Math

PleaseConvinceMe Podcast 125

What Does the Evidence Reveal About Mormonism?

In this podcast, Jim begins a short, two part series that examines the evidence related to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. Mormonism hinges on the truth about Smith and the text he claimed to be a second testament of Jesus Christ. What does the evidence tell us about Smith and the text? Does Christianity stand up to the same sort of evidential scrutiny?

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PleaseConvinceMe Podcast 125

A New Bible for a New Generation

B & H Publishing is closer and closer to releasing the Apologetics Study Bible for Students. It's available for pre-order now and will be released in February of 2010. The Bible has been specifically designed for students to "anchor younger Christians in the truths of Scripture by equipping them with thoughtful and practical responses for whenever the core issues of their faith and life are challenged." It contains contributions from a number of well known apologists, including John Mark Reynolds, Hank Hanegraaff, Greg Koukl, Frank Turek, Casey Luskin and Sean McDowell (who is also the editor). We were fortunate enough to be included in this list and contributed three articles for the publication. B & H Publishing is now promoting the book with a VIDEO that help people understand the need for such a commentary!

A New Bible for a New Generation

Dawkins on Jesus

Recently Richard Dawkins was interviewed on the Hugh Hewitt show and near the end of the interview, Hewitt asks...

HH: On the person of Jesus Christ, did He exist?

RD: I suspect He probably did. I suspect there are lots of itinerant preachers, and one of them was probably called Yehoshua, or various other versions of Jesus’ name, but I don’t think that a miracle worker existed.

HH: How do you rate the evidence for Christ’s existence, manuscript evidence, eyewitness evidence, things like that?

RD: As I said, it wouldn’t be at all surprising if a man called Jesus or Yehoshua existed. I would say the evidence that He worked miracles, He rose from the dead, He was born of a virgin, is zero.

HH: Well, you repeatedly use the analogy of a detective at a crime scene throughout The Greatest Show On Earth. But detectives simply can’t dismiss evidence they don’t want to see. There’s a lot of evidence for the miracles, in terms of eyewitness…

RD: No, there isn’t. What there is, is written stories which were written decades after the alleged events were supposed to happen. No historian would take that seriously.

HH: Well, that’s why I’m conflicted, because in your book, you talk about the Latin teacher who is stymied at every turn, and yet Latin teachers routinely rely on things like Tacitus and Pliny, and histories that were written centuries after the events in which they are recording occur.

RD: There’s massive archaeological evidence, there’s massive evidence of all kinds. It’s just not comparable. No…if you talk to any ancient historian of the period, they will agree that it is not good historical evidence.

HH: Oh, that’s simply not true. Dr. Mark Roberts, double PhD in undergraduate at Harvard has written a very persuasive book upon this. I mean, that’s an astounding statement. Are you unfamiliar with him?

RD: All right, then there may be some, but a very large number of ancient historians would say…

HH: Well, you just said there were none. So there are some that you are choosing not to confront.

RD: You sound like a lawyer.

HH: I am a lawyer.

RD: Oh, for God’s sake. Are you? Okay. I didn’t know that. All right. I will accept that there are some ancient historians who take the Gospels seriously. But they were written decades after the events that happened, and they were written by people with an axe to grind, written by disciples. There are no eyewitness written accounts. The earliest New Testament…

HH: I understand you believe that, Professor. I do. But what I don’t understand is how you can use the analogy of the Latin teacher or the detective, when it breaks down given your dismissal of evidence you don’t see fit to deal with squarely?

RD: I think that’s a very, very specious comparison, because the Latin teacher is dealing with enormous numbers of documents. Remember, my Latin teacher is supposed to be confronted with skeptics who don’t even think the Latin language was ever spoken. And there’s huge amounts of documentary evidence of the Roman Empire. We’re talking about the entire Roman Empire here. There’s enormous amounts of eyewitness accounts written down at the time. It just is no comparison.

HH: Actually, it is. It’s actually a very persuasive…in fact, the arguments for the manuscript evidence of Christ and His doings is much stronger than anything, for example, Tacitus or Pliny wrote. It’s just much stronger. Now you might counter with Cesar’s Gallic war commentaries, and you do mention those, and those are contemporary accounts by an eyewitness, but so are the Gospel evidences, say, of Luke accompanying Paul about. And yet you’re dismissive of the miracles that occurred in there. So I’m just wondering…

RD: They may be. The accounts of Luke accompanying Paul may be real, but Luke never met Jesus.

HH: But again, I’m not arguing that point with you. It’s just that you dismiss that all without dealing with it serially, which would not be, I think, consistent with your detective argument, or your Latin teacher argument, because…

RD: I cannot believe that you’re doing more than just trying to score points. You cannot seriously be saying that the case for the existence of the Roman Empire is as weak as for Jesus.

HH: That’s not what I’m saying at all. I didn’t say that. I said that your argument, by analogy, to a Latin teacher being harried by people who deny certain things, but especially your idea of a detective using evidence at a crime scene, that it doesn’t comport with your dismissal of the evidence for Christianity and the historical Jesus.

Hewitt holds Dawkins feet to the fire for using his detective analogy in his new book and then refusing to follow the evidence where it leads because of his obedience to naturalism (Dawkins ridicules Hewitt for believing in miracles soon after). Dawkins points to the manuscript and archaeological evidence when it suits his point, but seems unaware of the overwhelming amount of evidence for the Bible and Resurrection when compared to other ancient manuscripts. It reminds me that we need to both be familiar with the case that atheists are making and then in fairness ask them how extensively they have looked into the evidence from Christian apologists if they are truly open minded.

It is interesting that Dawkins dismisses the accounts because they were "written decades after the events that happened, and they were written by people with an axe to grind, written by disciples." We would agree that the accounts were written decades later if he means two or three (20-30 years) which is not enough time for legend to creep in and there would still be people living that would have objected had the written accounts been different than what actually occurred. Also, if being a disciple discounts their testimony, then so would any modern testimony of someone who changes their mind about something because it happened in front of their eyes. I wonder what Dawkins thinks the "axe to grind" is for the disciples. Would it be worth being persecuted, tortured and dying for if made up?

Dawkins on Jesus

Deut's Other Gods

An LDS man who wanted to convince me that the Bible speaks of more than one real god used Deuteronomy 32:8 to try to prove his point. In the Revised Standard Version (RSV), this verse reads:

"When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God."

The man's claim was that these "sons of God" are gods themselves, and part of a "heavenly council of gods" to the "Most High God".

To get a better idea the context of this particular verse, I went back to the Book of Deuteronomy and looked at what it had to say about "other gods". The following is a presentation of what I found. To be consistent, these verses have been taken from the RSV. They have also been shortened for brevity.

The "Other Gods of Deuteronomy"

Deut 5:6-8 I am the LORD your God…You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image…”
Deut 6:14 “You shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the peoples who are round about you”
Deut 7:3-5 “You shall not make marriages with them…for they would turn away your sons from following me, to serve other gods…”
Deut 8:19 “…if you forget the LORD your God and go after other gods and serve them and worship them, I solemnly warn you this day…”
Deut 11:16-17 “Take heed lest your heart be deceived, and you turn aside and serve other gods and worship them, and the anger of the LORD be kindled against you…”
Deut 11:28 “and the curse, if you… turn aside… to go after other gods which you have not known”
Deut 12:2-3 “You shall surely destroy all the places where the nations whom you shall dispossess served their gods…you shall hew down the graven images of their gods…”
Deut 12:30-31 “…do not inquire about their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods?--that I also may do likewise.' You shall not do so to the LORD your God; for every abominable thing which the LORD hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods.”
Deut 20:18 “that they may not teach you to do according to all their abominable practices which they have done in the service of their gods, and so to sin against the LORD your God.”
Deut 28:14 “… do not turn aside from any of the words which I command you this day, to the right hand or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.”
Deut 29:16-18 "…you have seen their detestable things, their idols of wood and stone, of silver and gold, which were among them. Beware lest there be among you a man or woman or family or tribe, whose heart turns away this day from the LORD our God to go and serve the gods of those nations…”
Deut 29:25-26 “…they forsook the covenant of the LORD… and went and served other gods…” Deut 30:16 “… the LORD your God will bless you … But if…you… are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, I declare to you this day, that you shall perish…”
Deut 31:16-18 “And the LORD said unto Moses… this people will rise and play the harlot after the strange gods of the land… And I will surely hide my face in that day on account of all the evil which they have done, because they have turned to other gods”
Deut 32:12 “the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no foreign god with him.”
Deut 3:24 “'O Lord GOD, thou hast only begun to show thy servant thy greatness and thy mighty hand; for what god is there in heaven or on earth who can do such works and mighty acts as thine?”
Deut 10:17 “For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords…”

I'm going to pause here and draw some preliminary conclusions. From the verses above, it seems that:

1 - The “LORD God” is the god of the nation of Israel, but the other peoples/nations have/worship other gods.
2 - The LORD God is adamant that His people not have anything to do with the other gods, nor try to worship Him in the same way as the other peoples their gods.
3 - The god-worship done by the other nations includes “every abomination to the LORD” (one given example is the burning of their children).
4 - The LORD God is superior to the other gods.

Are these conclusions sufficient? Not yet. There are more verses to consider:

Deut 28:15, 36 “But if you will not obey the voice of the LORD your God… these curses shall come upon you… The LORD will bring you… to a nation that neither you nor your fathers have known; and there you shall serve other gods, of wood and stone.”
Deut 28:64 “And the LORD will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other; and there you shall serve other gods, of wood and stone, which neither you nor your fathers have known.”
Deut 4:23-28 “Take heed to yourselves, lest you forget the covenant of the LORD your God … And the LORD will scatter you among the peoples … And there you will serve gods of wood and stone, the work of men's hands, that neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.”
Deut 17:2-5 "If there is found among you … man or woman who … has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven …then… you shall you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones”
Deut 32:16-17 “They stirred him to jealousy with strange gods; with abominable practices they provoked him to anger. They sacrificed to demons which were no gods, to gods they had never known, to new gods that had come in of late, whom your fathers had never dreaded.”

Above, we see that the non-Israelite nations were worshiping
1- wood and stone (the work of men’s hands),
2- the sun, moon, and ‘host of heaven’, and
3- demons!

Ok, so some of the 'other gods' are graven images, etc, but are they all? Are there any real and/or ‘good' other gods?

Deuteronomy never mentions any. In fact:

Deut 32:37-39 “Then [the LORD] will say, 'Where are their gods... let them rise up and help you, let them be your protection! "'See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me... there is none that can deliver out of my hand.”
Deut 4:35 “To you it was shown, that you might know that the LORD is God; there is no other besides him.”
Deut 4:39 “Know therefore this day, and lay it to your heart, that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other.”

Here are the revamped conclusions, then:

1- The nation of Israel’s god is the LORD God. He is the only real god in heaven or on earth.The other so-called ‘gods’ are graven images, demons, sun, moon, etc.
2- The LORD God is adamant that His people not worship/serve these gods-that-are-not-gods. One reason is that this worship leads to “every abomination”. Another reason is that these ‘gods’ can/do not help.

Ok, so, there is only one God for our heaven and earth, but are there other real gods for other 'heaven and earth's? Does Deuteronomy leave room for any?

Only if you argue 'from silence'. In all of Deuteronomy, and in fact, in all of the Bible, though “other gods” are referred to many, many times, NOT ONE TIME is there ever mentioned any other real god.

More than that, there are several passages in which the LORD God clearly states that He is the only God that there has ever been or ever will be, and the only one He knows of (i.e. Isaiah 43:10, 44:6,24).

So, given what is revealed about the LORD God in the Bible, to say that there are other real gods in other universes, one must believe that 1- the LORD is lying, 2- the LORD is ignorant, or 3- the Bible is not true (or mistranslated).

Since we are consulting the Bible, let’s rule out the Bible not being true. (If it is not true, we may as well not consult it at all). Next, we can rule out that the LORD God is lying, because not only does He say He is the only God, but nowhere in the Bible is any other real god ever mentioned. In other words, there is a consistent lack of any real God besides the LORD God throughout the Bible.

We are left with the LORD God just not knowing whether or not there are any other gods. This puts us in a new bind. Dare we assume that the LORD God is not great enough to know of His peers? Only if we think we are greater than He is. “God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar” (Romans 3:4).

So, going by the Bible, we must conclude that the ONLY GOD, EVER, ANYWHERE, is the LORD God.

My challenge to anyone who believes that there is more than one god (though you may worship only one - monolatrism) is to reread Deuteronomy to make sure that I have not edited the material in such a way as to change the overall conclusion about the “other gods”. Next, scour the Bible to try to find any other gods that are real/non-idols. If you find some, please note the book, chapter and verse that where they can be found, and let me know.

Deut 4:15-19 “Therefore take good heed to yourselves. Since you saw no form on the day that the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female, the likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged bird that flies in the air, the likeness of anything that creeps on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the water under the earth. And beware lest you lift up your eyes to heaven, and when you see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, you be drawn away and worship them and serve them…”

Deut 4:39 "Know therefore this day, and lay it to your heart, that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other"

Deut's Other Gods

PleaseConvinceMe Podcast 124

What Is the Difference Between A Natural Talent and A Spiritual Gift?

In this podcast, Jim tackles the issue of “Spiritual Gifts” and distinguishes the difference between such gifts and the natural talents that all of us possess. Why do Christians sometimes describe what appear to be natural talents as “Spiritual Gifts”? Are they just attributing to God what is actually simply a matter of genetics and environment? Jim also answers listener email related to the Trinity and to the power of circumstantial evidence.

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PleaseConvinceMe Podcast 124